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Can Inadequate Urination Cause Small Kidney Size?
Question: My kidneys are quite small. I grew up eating meat as a child. My left kidney is only 9.86cm long; my right kidney is 10.10cm long. As a child I often would not go urinate in school from age 5 to 10. This was from 7am to 3pm. Around 9 years old the doctor noticed I was short but pretty heavy compared to other kids. Age 10 they though about giving me growth hormone. Unfortunately the doctor never really examined me in detail (including checking for hypogondism). Later on ; around age 11 I started using the toilettes in school. I have small testicles and I think my penis or testicles; nor myself did not grow much from age 5 to 10. Is it possible that the small size of my kidney's is due to the fact that I did not urinate regularly? How much shorter I am than I should have been? How much do you think this problem effected my growth?
Brief Answer:
Seems normal to me.
Detailed Answer:
As per the notes , your kidneys are of normal size. Meat doesn't alter the kidney structure though there can be change in the function. It increases the filtration process called hyperfiltration. It is something like stress test ( the way heart is tested through stress test) to the kidneys. It increases the GFR ( the method of estimation of kidney function) initially but as the time progresses the kidney function might decrease. But , it is not yet proven that meat is harmful to the kidneys " directly" other than the functional changes it causes. It can be extrapolated that the excess intake of meat in those vulnerable can " further" damage the kidneys. It means, it is better to decrease the meat intake for those who are at risk of developing a kidney disease
The kidney structure and size also doesn't alter with the method and practice of urination habits.
People with hypogonadism can have some congenital structural changes of kidneys and later a few functional changes leading to decrease in kidney function. Those changes can be checked by kidney function tests.
If you are really short, the kidneys are more of normal size; as the taller the person , the longer will be the kidney, presumably
Seems normal to me.
Detailed Answer:
As per the notes , your kidneys are of normal size. Meat doesn't alter the kidney structure though there can be change in the function. It increases the filtration process called hyperfiltration. It is something like stress test ( the way heart is tested through stress test) to the kidneys. It increases the GFR ( the method of estimation of kidney function) initially but as the time progresses the kidney function might decrease. But , it is not yet proven that meat is harmful to the kidneys " directly" other than the functional changes it causes. It can be extrapolated that the excess intake of meat in those vulnerable can " further" damage the kidneys. It means, it is better to decrease the meat intake for those who are at risk of developing a kidney disease
The kidney structure and size also doesn't alter with the method and practice of urination habits.
People with hypogonadism can have some congenital structural changes of kidneys and later a few functional changes leading to decrease in kidney function. Those changes can be checked by kidney function tests.
If you are really short, the kidneys are more of normal size; as the taller the person , the longer will be the kidney, presumably
Above answer was peer-reviewed by :
Dr. Prasad
I read that kidneys are 11.5 to 13cm long in men who grew up eating meat.
I am not that short. I know in XXXXXXX they are smaller ; I think because they eat less protein as kids. I read a study and it showed infants who were fed a high protein diet over 3 months saw a 5% increase in kidney length vs kids who were fed less protein. This would be because the kidneys are still growing as kids so if you eat more protein they become bigger to deal with the protein intake. Are you sure that if you do not urinate regular during the day as a child that this would not effect the kidney growth? Would this be similar to urinary obstruction? Would it not slow down the kidney growth?
I am not that short. I know in XXXXXXX they are smaller ; I think because they eat less protein as kids. I read a study and it showed infants who were fed a high protein diet over 3 months saw a 5% increase in kidney length vs kids who were fed less protein. This would be because the kidneys are still growing as kids so if you eat more protein they become bigger to deal with the protein intake. Are you sure that if you do not urinate regular during the day as a child that this would not effect the kidney growth? Would this be similar to urinary obstruction? Would it not slow down the kidney growth?
Brief Answer:
9 cm is the minimum cutoff
Detailed Answer:
As I stated earlier, the kidneys size depends on the height of an individual. The taller the person, the longer would be the kidney. As such, for all adults, we consider 9 cm as the minimum cutoff for the normal kidney size as normal, all over the world irrespective of the ethnicity.
As I explained to you, the animal protein will increase the filtration initially ( called hyper-filtration) and hence the kidney size also increases. If its prolonged for a very long period, there can be an injury to the kidneys which can lead to small kidneys. So, animal protein should be restricted in vulnerable people.
Any kind / amount of blockade to the urinary flow can have an impact on the kidneys. Though the injury to the kidneys depends on the duration of obstruction. In your case , you were holding the urine for few hours only.
Several experimental animals (of obstruction models) demonstrated injury however subtle they might be initially, may progress gradually and lead to shrinkage of kidney size. So, as per age, duration and history, the one which could not result in damage to kidneys till this age , was not clinically significant obstruction. Even a clinically significant obstruction in those animal models became normal once the obstruction is relieved.
In human beings, we see obstruction due to stone disease and Prostate enlargement which presents as kidney failure requiring dialysis, becomes normalized after the obstruction is relieved.
So, you don't need to worry for a long time as the duration on injury was short lived and you grew beyond the time limit for such in insult to kidneys
9 cm is the minimum cutoff
Detailed Answer:
As I stated earlier, the kidneys size depends on the height of an individual. The taller the person, the longer would be the kidney. As such, for all adults, we consider 9 cm as the minimum cutoff for the normal kidney size as normal, all over the world irrespective of the ethnicity.
As I explained to you, the animal protein will increase the filtration initially ( called hyper-filtration) and hence the kidney size also increases. If its prolonged for a very long period, there can be an injury to the kidneys which can lead to small kidneys. So, animal protein should be restricted in vulnerable people.
Any kind / amount of blockade to the urinary flow can have an impact on the kidneys. Though the injury to the kidneys depends on the duration of obstruction. In your case , you were holding the urine for few hours only.
Several experimental animals (of obstruction models) demonstrated injury however subtle they might be initially, may progress gradually and lead to shrinkage of kidney size. So, as per age, duration and history, the one which could not result in damage to kidneys till this age , was not clinically significant obstruction. Even a clinically significant obstruction in those animal models became normal once the obstruction is relieved.
In human beings, we see obstruction due to stone disease and Prostate enlargement which presents as kidney failure requiring dialysis, becomes normalized after the obstruction is relieved.
So, you don't need to worry for a long time as the duration on injury was short lived and you grew beyond the time limit for such in insult to kidneys
Above answer was peer-reviewed by :
Dr. Prasad
As far as protein intake effecting kidney function; I was saying that in young children the kidney will grow if there is protein. In an adult if there is excessive protein the kidney will suffer. That could explain why different ethnicities have different kidney size; the diet during infance and childhood is key.
The injury was every school day for 4 years; starting when I had to go to urinate; around 11am until I got home at 3 pm. This started at age 6.
I believe this would have caused reduced cortisol creation; so I would have grown less. Starting around age 9 the doctor notices I was fairly short; and I became chubby.
Please comment.
The injury was every school day for 4 years; starting when I had to go to urinate; around 11am until I got home at 3 pm. This started at age 6.
I believe this would have caused reduced cortisol creation; so I would have grown less. Starting around age 9 the doctor notices I was fairly short; and I became chubby.
Please comment.
Brief Answer:
hi
Detailed Answer:
The effect of protein intake is fairly transient and will have an advere effect only when sustained for several years.
The size of the kidneys depends on the number of g nephrons ( of which glomeruli, the filtering unit, is a part). The number of nephrons depends on the weight at the time of birth. The lower the birth weight, the lesser would be number of nephrons. Most of will have 10 - 15 lakhs of nephrons at the time of birth on an average. Those with less birth weight at risk of developing less number of nephrons and as a consequence would develop high BP and kidney injury/ damage at an early age.
So, the development of high BP and CKD is determined at the time or even before birth and all other aspects of progression etc are also determined genetically. Like the birth weight etc are determined by genes which also determined by the ethnicity, the internal organs size etc are also grossly determined by them.
Height of an individual is also genetically determined and approximately the average of mid parental height, mostly. But, several factors like the nutrition during the childhood and the pre pubertal growth spurt etc also determine the ultimate height achieved by an individual. Your weight during that age group also would depend on the nutritional intake as well as your physical activity rather than a subtle physiological variation in the passage of urine which would have a transient effect and wares off as the time passes.
hi
Detailed Answer:
The effect of protein intake is fairly transient and will have an advere effect only when sustained for several years.
The size of the kidneys depends on the number of g nephrons ( of which glomeruli, the filtering unit, is a part). The number of nephrons depends on the weight at the time of birth. The lower the birth weight, the lesser would be number of nephrons. Most of will have 10 - 15 lakhs of nephrons at the time of birth on an average. Those with less birth weight at risk of developing less number of nephrons and as a consequence would develop high BP and kidney injury/ damage at an early age.
So, the development of high BP and CKD is determined at the time or even before birth and all other aspects of progression etc are also determined genetically. Like the birth weight etc are determined by genes which also determined by the ethnicity, the internal organs size etc are also grossly determined by them.
Height of an individual is also genetically determined and approximately the average of mid parental height, mostly. But, several factors like the nutrition during the childhood and the pre pubertal growth spurt etc also determine the ultimate height achieved by an individual. Your weight during that age group also would depend on the nutritional intake as well as your physical activity rather than a subtle physiological variation in the passage of urine which would have a transient effect and wares off as the time passes.
Above answer was peer-reviewed by :
Dr. Chakravarthy Mazumdar
My point is that the bladder obstruction was almost daily during 5 years; this would be chronic. Think of it like repeated acute kidney problem; after a while it becomes chronic.
Yes the kidneys would heal; I agreed; but during those four years ; they would have produced less calcitriol and perhaps caused a growth hormone deficiency? Don't you think? I also have very small testicles and I think the lack of growth during five years could have caused this. I know even as late as age 12 and 10 months I was very chubby so I was still suffering from growth hormone problem.
At age 11 I had very chubby hands with poor definition. I know kidney problem causes swollen hands and chubbiness is symptom of growth hormone deficiency.
Also I read that kidney problem causes the gnrh signals to be weaker and can cause hypogonadism; basically the brain does not release as much gondotrophin releasing hormone so this could cause a hypogonadic state in (prepuberty); age 11 to 12.
And last week My calcitriol level was checked and found to be 90. I think the normal is 20 to 60.
PHT was 13 and vitamin D was around 118 (deficiency starts at 75).
My mom was type 1 diabetic. This means she took insulin from a couple years before she got pregnant with me. Could this have caused me to be born with fewer nephrons?
I do not have or did not have a genetic problem. I had acquired kidney problem which caused growth hormone deficiency and acquired hypogonadism.
Please comment on the above?
Yes the kidneys would heal; I agreed; but during those four years ; they would have produced less calcitriol and perhaps caused a growth hormone deficiency? Don't you think? I also have very small testicles and I think the lack of growth during five years could have caused this. I know even as late as age 12 and 10 months I was very chubby so I was still suffering from growth hormone problem.
At age 11 I had very chubby hands with poor definition. I know kidney problem causes swollen hands and chubbiness is symptom of growth hormone deficiency.
Also I read that kidney problem causes the gnrh signals to be weaker and can cause hypogonadism; basically the brain does not release as much gondotrophin releasing hormone so this could cause a hypogonadic state in (prepuberty); age 11 to 12.
And last week My calcitriol level was checked and found to be 90. I think the normal is 20 to 60.
PHT was 13 and vitamin D was around 118 (deficiency starts at 75).
My mom was type 1 diabetic. This means she took insulin from a couple years before she got pregnant with me. Could this have caused me to be born with fewer nephrons?
I do not have or did not have a genetic problem. I had acquired kidney problem which caused growth hormone deficiency and acquired hypogonadism.
Please comment on the above?
Brief Answer:
hi
Detailed Answer:
Urinary obstruction at internal sphincter and below usually is not transmitted to the kidney as the uretric openings into the bladder are always tightly closed whenever there the pressure within the bladder increases. There is also a low pressure system in both the ureters which doesn't allow such a pressure to "touch" the kidneys if at all such a pressure affects the kidneys there will be the dilatation of both the ureters invariably. As you do not have a dilated uretric system your so called chronic obstruction did not "influence" the kidneys. Most of the women do not use wash rooms outside and hold the urine for several hours without any major problem hence your hypothesis doesn't hold true. An obstruction to the ureter and below in the urinary tract, initially produces a subtle injury to the renal tubular epithelial cells which manifests as hypertension which you do not have. All your reports submitted are normal GH is not influenced by the kidney function directly but indirectly only when the kidneys are totally damaged. Your small testis are part of hypogonadism rather than GH
deficiency.
Most of the children are chubby due to lack of physical activity rather than any hormonal deficiency. Kidney problem doesn't cause swollen hands unless a specific exists So also the GH problem doesn't produce chubby children. Kidney when it is totally damaged can indirectly affect GH and also can cause acquired hypogonadism, which is not true in your case, you need to be evaluated by an endocrinologist thoroughly .
Diabetic women who are on insulin usually will have "large babies" especially when they are on insulin which is an anabolic harmone . The kidneys are also would be of large size in those infants but settles gradually over several years, similar to that of other children. you probably have a tendency to develop diabetes, for which you should be careful enough. I feel that your hypothesis of acquired problems dosent hold true as you also need a genetic analysis by an expert in medical genetics
hi
Detailed Answer:
Urinary obstruction at internal sphincter and below usually is not transmitted to the kidney as the uretric openings into the bladder are always tightly closed whenever there the pressure within the bladder increases. There is also a low pressure system in both the ureters which doesn't allow such a pressure to "touch" the kidneys if at all such a pressure affects the kidneys there will be the dilatation of both the ureters invariably. As you do not have a dilated uretric system your so called chronic obstruction did not "influence" the kidneys. Most of the women do not use wash rooms outside and hold the urine for several hours without any major problem hence your hypothesis doesn't hold true. An obstruction to the ureter and below in the urinary tract, initially produces a subtle injury to the renal tubular epithelial cells which manifests as hypertension which you do not have. All your reports submitted are normal GH is not influenced by the kidney function directly but indirectly only when the kidneys are totally damaged. Your small testis are part of hypogonadism rather than GH
deficiency.
Most of the children are chubby due to lack of physical activity rather than any hormonal deficiency. Kidney problem doesn't cause swollen hands unless a specific exists So also the GH problem doesn't produce chubby children. Kidney when it is totally damaged can indirectly affect GH and also can cause acquired hypogonadism, which is not true in your case, you need to be evaluated by an endocrinologist thoroughly .
Diabetic women who are on insulin usually will have "large babies" especially when they are on insulin which is an anabolic harmone . The kidneys are also would be of large size in those infants but settles gradually over several years, similar to that of other children. you probably have a tendency to develop diabetes, for which you should be careful enough. I feel that your hypothesis of acquired problems dosent hold true as you also need a genetic analysis by an expert in medical genetics
Above answer was peer-reviewed by :
Dr. Vinay Bhardwaj
I am 38. I am talking about a condition I had as a child; probably as an adult it has healed. But certain scars are still there. As a child I did not have hypertension; but I had always been to the bathroom before medical check ups. After removing an obstruction in the ureter (upper track) how long does it take for the hypertension to go away? Remember my kidneys are 10.1cm (right) and 9.86cm (left side). IS is normal for left to be small than the right one? Might this be an indication of injury to the kidney? Also GFR is lower than expected at 95.
When the pressure inside bladder increases urethric openings are closed. Is this an instant process or the do the wretch openings into the bladder start to close gradually as the balder fills? Then would the urine start to back up into the kidney? So then new urine cannot flow into Bladder. I would think during this period metabolism is reduced. One radiologist told me the ureters would only be dilated while the bladder was full. I could understand this happening; if the bladder was full ; or near full the uretic valves would close. Urine would start to form in the ureters and go to the kidneys.
What kidney condtion would cause swollen hands? As an 11 year old I had swollen hands? Could I have had this condition?
Could this condition cause GH deficiency? I read that GH deficiency can cause acquired hypogonadism ; which if acquired around age 8 through age 12 would cause permanently smaller testicles and penis because there would be quite a bit less growth during the age of 8 to 12. What effect would this have on the pattern of GNRH gonodtrophin release stimulation (by the pituitary gland)?
I am not at high risk of developing diabetes as mom had Type 1 diabetes which is not so inheritable.
I have seen a couple endocrinologists; one has diagnosed me with testicular dysgenisis (not hypogonadism). One even said I had a micropenis; but I don't really believe him because it is 15cm erect.
I do believe that I caused a semi chronic injury to renal epithelial cells between age 8 and 12. Is this possible? How to find out? Could this reduce IGF 1 clearance DURING THESE YEARS and cause a growth hormone deficit? It would basically be reducing my metabolism. And harm GNRH levels age 11 to 12?
This would explain small testicles (part of their growth depends on FSH and IGF 1 around age 11 to 12)?
When the pressure inside bladder increases urethric openings are closed. Is this an instant process or the do the wretch openings into the bladder start to close gradually as the balder fills? Then would the urine start to back up into the kidney? So then new urine cannot flow into Bladder. I would think during this period metabolism is reduced. One radiologist told me the ureters would only be dilated while the bladder was full. I could understand this happening; if the bladder was full ; or near full the uretic valves would close. Urine would start to form in the ureters and go to the kidneys.
What kidney condtion would cause swollen hands? As an 11 year old I had swollen hands? Could I have had this condition?
Could this condition cause GH deficiency? I read that GH deficiency can cause acquired hypogonadism ; which if acquired around age 8 through age 12 would cause permanently smaller testicles and penis because there would be quite a bit less growth during the age of 8 to 12. What effect would this have on the pattern of GNRH gonodtrophin release stimulation (by the pituitary gland)?
I am not at high risk of developing diabetes as mom had Type 1 diabetes which is not so inheritable.
I have seen a couple endocrinologists; one has diagnosed me with testicular dysgenisis (not hypogonadism). One even said I had a micropenis; but I don't really believe him because it is 15cm erect.
I do believe that I caused a semi chronic injury to renal epithelial cells between age 8 and 12. Is this possible? How to find out? Could this reduce IGF 1 clearance DURING THESE YEARS and cause a growth hormone deficit? It would basically be reducing my metabolism. And harm GNRH levels age 11 to 12?
This would explain small testicles (part of their growth depends on FSH and IGF 1 around age 11 to 12)?
Answered by
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