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How Many Consecutive PVCs Are Dangerous?

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Posted on Fri, 13 Nov 2015
Question: Dear Dr Iliri,
Of course, as you well know, I am filled with terrible anxiety about the possible recurrence of my cardiomyopathy. I had a follow-up with my EP recently and he did an EKG which didn't show any PVCs, but it was the standard 15 seconds or so. My regular cardio recently did an EKG for two minutes which also showed no PVCs. However, I do feel one on occasion, in fact I've felt two or so tonight, so probably I'm having more than I can actually feel. My EP said that until it hits 20,000 a day, there is absolutely no danger, yet I have read that as few as 4000 or even 1000 PVCs per day have been shown to possibly cause heart weakening. My post ablation holters have shown 20, then 900 during a bad day, and then 50 PVCs, but I have not had Holter in over 6 months and based on my test results neither EP nor regular cardio thinks I need a Holter at this time. I am worried that I may be having many more PVCs than I can feel. Normally I can feel each one, but of course, I worry. I have become someone who worried.

Would you say the research shows that less than 10% of PVCs are inconsequential, even with my prior history? I don't feel more than a couple day but I feel perhaps it could be a hundred or more that I don't feel. Even if so, would it mean nothing?

I'm embarassed to need so much reassurance. Again, you laugh, but I wish I could just have a robot heart or a home echo- something to make me feel secure that my heart is going to stay strong and that I can live my life as before. I am just afraid that if I believe I am ok and embrace life and health, that this ailment will come back and I will have to adjust once more to the idea of having a short life. It is coming upon the anniversary of my diagnosis and I am having many bad memories.

THank you so much.

XXXX
doctor
Answered by Dr. Ilir Sharka (11 hours later)
Brief Answer:
I would explain as follows :

Detailed Answer:
Dear XXXX!

You shouldn't be embarrassed when discussing with me;, as I am your online doctor and I have full knowledge of your concerns.

Regarding your arrhythmia issues, I would like to explain that you should trust your EP. It is quite impossible to have 20 000 PVCs without noticing them.

Also having 4 000 /day means around 3PVCs per minute and you should be able to feel them by yourself, tracking your wrist pulse.

So relax my dear!

You have to completely disregard completely your fears as they derive from your subconsciousness.

Having one, two, or even 50 PVCs per day is not dangerous at all, facing your structurally perfect heart.

So nothing to worry about!

Only the case of persistent and continuous palpitations (suspicious for abnormal tachycardia ) would be an ambulatory ECG monitoring ( Holter ) justified.

At the end I would like to wish you a pleasant weekend!

Kind regards,

Dr. Iliri
Above answer was peer-reviewed by : Dr. Chakravarthy Mazumdar
doctor
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Follow up: Dr. Ilir Sharka (36 hours later)
Dear Dr Iliri,
So would 500 be harmless? 900? 4000? I know I am not having thousands but on the day my holter showed 900, I estimated perhaps 150-200. Now I think most days I feel anywhere from none to maybe 20 but unlike before, my PVCs are quite "soft" and are quite hard to notice although I do think I feel most of them. I guess carvedilol makes them less noticeable. My cardio says less than 10% will do no damage, my EP says 20,000. Is this true? Would even 5000 do me no harm? I am anxious (naturally) as I was scheduled for a 6-month holter and EP decided it was unnecessary. I am now not scheduled for holter until 6 months after total stoppage of carvdedilol which may be 8-12 months. I am just worried I am having more PVCs than I think. It is very very hard to control my fear when I feel one as they caused my cardiomyopathy.

I wish I could go back to believing PVCs are harmless and that I am ok.

Thank you so much, dear Dr Iliri. I hope you are having a wonderful weekend.
doctor
Answered by Dr. Ilir Sharka (3 hours later)
Brief Answer:
You are not at risk of any arrhythmia events.

Detailed Answer:
Hello!

As I explained you before, you can't have 4 000 PVCs per day, as they would be for sure noticeable.

But even if you have such a number, they would be harmless for your heart.

So, as you can understand, 900 is quite a trivial number.

I agree with your doctor that having such a few PVCs and considering your perfect condition, a Holter would not be necessary.

So, relax and don't worry about it!

Nothing is going to happen!

Best regards,

Dr. Iliri
Above answer was peer-reviewed by : Dr. Chakravarthy Mazumdar
doctor
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Follow up: Dr. Ilir Sharka (40 hours later)
Thank you so much Dr Iliri,
You are so helpful and it's quite remarkable that I have managed to stay out of the hospital for over two months now and I was before going every week I was so scared. And it's quite an emotional time as it was one year ago I was diagnosed and told by my first doctor I would die within a year unless I was able to get a heart transplant. I still hear his voice every day.

My cardio, knowing my anxiety is moving my echo scheduled for December to November as I will be traveling internationaly for work and am quite nervous about the long flights and being far away from doctors who know me and my history. It will be about 4 months since my last echo which showed EF 65-70, but 5 months since EF on echo was 55-60. Do you think 65-70 was actual improvement (7 months after ablation) or just that it was a different tech and machine? Doesnt it mean that perhaps yet another tech could do echo and EF shows 50? I dont understand how it can be so variable in the normal range but not dip into the "low EF" category. I'm already so nervous as this much time has never passed berween echoes. Are you quite sure I dont need to worry?

Thank you so so much dear Dr Iliri.
XXXX
doctor
Answered by Dr. Ilir Sharka (11 hours later)
Brief Answer:
You don't need to worry at all.

Detailed Answer:

Dear XXXX!

I agree with you that such EF variations could hardly be seen on a normal individual.

But remember that you have recovered from a serious cardiac disorder, which had adversely influenced your cardiac function.

So, after being successfully treated by cardiac ablation, a gradual EF increase is quite expected.

Of course, such a remarkable EF increase after only a month is not enough plausible (especially 1 year after the successful cardiac ablation).

I believe this is due partially by an inter/intra observer variability.

I don't believe that another echo would produce a lower EF value (50).

I assure you that actually you are on perfect cardiac conditions and there is nothing to worry about.

Best wishes,

Dr. Iliri




Above answer was peer-reviewed by : Dr. Chakravarthy Mazumdar
doctor
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Follow up: Dr. Ilir Sharka (14 hours later)
Dear Dr Iliri,
Thank you again, for all your wisdom. My echoes since ablation 10 months ago have been showing EF 55-60, with calculations showing 60-63 and nuclear stress in XXXXXXX showed EF 63. My last echo, in July, 7 months after ablation is the one which cardio said was EF 68- he said higher than 65- closer to 70. The echo which showed 68 was performed by my regular cardio who read my initial echo last October and diagnosed me with cardiomyopathy. It was first echo he had done on me since the bad echo. My follow-up echoes were done by EP and the one done 3 weeks before last echo was performed by a doctor in my EP's practice I had never seen before.

So do you believe EF was not fluctuating and that 55 and 68 didn't mean there was actual change in EF? Just tech and dr being different?

When I last saw my cardio last month he said he could tell from looking at my face that I was not retaining fluid. Is that true? Attaching photo taken just now. When I look at old photos, during my illness, I didn't seem to look puffy but then my weight was always stable, but I had the shiny shins and the cough and the high proBNP.

I know I just need to move on. I think with a couple more normal echoes, I will be ok.

But you feel quite sure there won't be EF changes over last three months?

Thank you so much, dear Dr Iliri.

XXXX
doctor
Answered by Dr. Ilir Sharka (7 hours later)
Brief Answer:
No signs of edema could be justified on your actual heart conditions.

Detailed Answer:

Dear XXXX,

You look great! You are a nice girl and no signs of edema could be determined on your skin.

But the most reliable evidence of overt declive edema (characteristic of heart failure) could be identified in the lower parts of the body (when edema is really present): such as feet, calfs, etc

Edema may not be detectable by a direct inspection or physical exam, when the body retains fluids up to 4 - 5 liters. Only after that edema may generally be seen.

But, facing your actual perfect clinical conditions and cardiac tests, edema is out of discussion. There is no scientific explanation for edema to be present.

Regarding echo-derived EF fluctuations, as I explained you before, are caused in great part by inter-observer measurement accuracy. So relax! There is nothing pathological on such a matter.

Of course, gradual improvement has happened during the first months after ablation, and it has been noted by your echos, but there is aslo some examiner related components (which lead to more pronounced differences form one echo to the other).

Kind regards,

Dr. Iliri




Above answer was peer-reviewed by : Dr. Chakravarthy Mazumdar
doctor
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Follow up: Dr. Ilir Sharka (2 days later)
Dear Dr Iliri,
Again, thank you so much for your ongoing help. You are so kind and so knowledgeable- I wish it was easier for me to just accept that I have recovered and be happy and grateful.

I know you don't think it's necessary or helpful to
have frequent testing, but do you feel quite sure that if I have an echo soon, it will still
Show a healthy heart? I see more doctors than I should and I will soon make sure I see only one, but for now I am too afraid to go an entire year without testing. The cardio I will see in two weeks has done an echo on me before and it was EF 60 about four months ago. So she knows my history and has a prior echo to compare it to when she does another echo.

You think even with small drop in EF- say to 45-50 would present with symptoms so I would know something was going on?

I am hoping that soon I can put the cardiomyopathy in my past and move on with a healthy, happy life.

Wishing you a wonderful weekend. Thank you so much.

XXXX
doctor
Answered by Dr. Ilir Sharka (16 hours later)
Brief Answer:
I would explain as follows:

Detailed Answer:

Dear XXXX,

Based on your previous cardiac history (cardiomyopathy), underlying management strategy (cardiac ablation, other medications), your follow up cardiac tests (cardiac echos, lab tests, etc), your actual clinical conditions, my professional opinion on this matter is that there are no medical evidence for developing a new recurrence of heart failure (cardiomyopathy).

So, my answer is: YES! If you have a new echo, I feel quite sure it will show again a normal cardiac structure and function.


Regarding your question about EF 45-50 and possible symptomatology, I would explain that heart failure is a clinical syndrome, not an echocardiographic classification.

So, it is usually true that on the clinical conditions with a very low EF (20%, 25%, 35%, etc) there exists symptomatology of heart failure (such as dyspnea, edema, extreme tiredness,etc). But, this may be possible even with preserved EF (50, 55, even 65%), as ejection fraction doesn't reflect diastolic function, which may be responsible for the presence of HFpEF (heart failure with preserved ejection fraction).

From your follow up echos, your systolic and diastolic cardiac functions are normal, and you have no symptomatology of heart failure.

So, as a conclusion I could assure you are not actually at risk of developing heart failure.

Wishing you a pleasant weekend!

Dr. Iliri
Above answer was peer-reviewed by : Dr. Chakravarthy Mazumdar
doctor
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Follow up: Dr. Ilir Sharka (3 days later)
Dear Dr Iliri,
Thank you so much for your advice and knowledge. Yesterday I had an incident during work which scared me. I have a light pink scar from a 2nd degree burn about 6 months ago. Yesterday I noticed the scar was quite red although nothing had happened, no injury or irritation, no heat or cold expoaure, I was just working quietly. After a few minutes it was pink again. It didn't hurt but of course I immediately worried that perhaps there was some heart/circulation/blood flow issue which caused the scar to turn red briefly. It hasn't happened again. Could that possibly be a cardiac related issue?

I am scheduled for an echo and checkup next week. It has only been 3 months but as last two echoes were so different (55-60 in early July, and 65-70 in late July) I'm worried this time it could be 50-55 or even lower. I understand everything you've told me about how interpretation can vary so much, but it seems that 55 to 70 in 3 weeks seems extreme. This dr has performed echo on me before and it was 60- in May. Seems like most consistently, as with stress echo, EF is about 60-65. Are you quite confident nothing would have changed in 3 months?

Thank you so much for your continued help and kindness. No ER now for 2 /12 months! Had been going once a week before that. I still feel tempted to go quite often but you are helping me a lot.

Many thanks,
XXXX
doctor
Answered by Dr. Ilir Sharka (12 hours later)
Brief Answer:
My opinion:

Detailed Answer:

Hello XXXX,

Regarding your concern about the transient red skin transformation, I would explain that a second degree burning almost always leaves some discoloration as the new tissue has different cellular and vascular microarrangement.

At times a slight hyperemia may sharpen its discoloration. That's what has happened to you.

But, it is not a dangerous transformation. No relation t oany adverse cardiac issue.

So, relax! It does mean nothing.

As you are going to have a scheduled cardiac echo, I believe everything is going to conclude fine (my profesional reasoning leads me to that conclusion).

You just have to wait until the echo is done, and don't worry too much!

Kind regards,

Dr. Iliri
Note: For further follow up on related General & Family Physician Click here.

Above answer was peer-reviewed by : Dr. Chakravarthy Mazumdar
doctor
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Dr. Ilir Sharka

Cardiologist

Practicing since :2001

Answered : 9541 Questions

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How Many Consecutive PVCs Are Dangerous?

Brief Answer: I would explain as follows : Detailed Answer: Dear XXXX! You shouldn't be embarrassed when discussing with me;, as I am your online doctor and I have full knowledge of your concerns. Regarding your arrhythmia issues, I would like to explain that you should trust your EP. It is quite impossible to have 20 000 PVCs without noticing them. Also having 4 000 /day means around 3PVCs per minute and you should be able to feel them by yourself, tracking your wrist pulse. So relax my dear! You have to completely disregard completely your fears as they derive from your subconsciousness. Having one, two, or even 50 PVCs per day is not dangerous at all, facing your structurally perfect heart. So nothing to worry about! Only the case of persistent and continuous palpitations (suspicious for abnormal tachycardia ) would be an ambulatory ECG monitoring ( Holter ) justified. At the end I would like to wish you a pleasant weekend! Kind regards, Dr. Iliri