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Is Negative HIV DNA PCR, 4th Generation Test At 7 Months Conclusive?

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Posted on Sat, 28 Feb 2015
Question: Hello doctor XXXXXXX i had unprotected vaginal sex with street prostitute in oman before 7 months..prostitute was from XXXXXXX .during exposure i got bleeding from my inner penile foreskin as i am uncircumcized..i got panicked and quickly ejaculated and left that place..2 weeks after exposure i got viral pharyngitis and fever..pharyngitis subsided in 2 weeks but fever continued till 1 month..and than the main symptoms started..one night suddenly my knees started hurting badly which migrated downwards and it hurted very badly..then i got intense burning pain in both of my feet and palms of hand..i got electric shocks from feet to hands while sleeping..the burning and pins and needles along with electric currents were worst at night..i cant sleep at night because of horrible pain..6 weeks after exposure i came bk to XXXXXXX for my chronic cholecystitis surgery..at that time i got tested for hiv hep b hep c..i was tested by hiv 4th gen elisa which came negative.after getting discharged from hosp i did hiv 1 proviral dna pcr done by reliance lifescience which also came negative..than i did hiv 4th gen tests upto 7 months along with hep b hep c and syphillis which came bacj negative..i cant get hiv out of my mind bcoz my symptoms are getting severe day by day..my neuropathy is becoming worse.i saw neurologist who confirmed i have got neuropathy symptoms in both feet and palms of hand..my both soles of feet have became dark red in colour along with both palms from whitish colour. And are constantly burning and hurting.why colour of my soles and palms have changed?i have been prescribed lyrica and amitrypiline for neuropathy pain which is helping a little..last year i had life threatening illness and was hospitalised for 2 months..i got pancreatitis,my bile duct got blocked my liver inflammed,my whole abdomen got nasty..my life was saved at that time..will this life threatening illness affect my hiv results?i have also did hiv 1 rna quant by cobas taqman after 3 months which was not detected..yaa and one more thing doc..my esr and crp levels were highly elevated at 45 and 48 after my exposure.it took 5 months to come down at normal levels.now both are normal.i have heard everywhere that esr and crp always gets elevated during hiv acute infection:(.i am really blanked right now..i cant believe that i sm hiv negative because of this ongoing neuropathy muscle twitching all over and pain in joints and muscles..i cant see any option for file attachment otherwisr i would have sended u pics of my soles and palms..now looking at whole scenario please give me honest advice..what should i do.how can i believe my negative results inspite of clear clinical evidences of neuropathy and all..i have heard that some people test positive after 6 months even after a year..i am afraid i am one of that rare persons..
doctor
Answered by Dr. Sankaranantham Murugan (2 hours later)
Brief Answer:
You are HIV free and symptoms not related to HIV.

Detailed Answer:
Hi XXXXXXX
Welcome to HCM.
Thanks for posting your query.

You had unprotected sex at Oman and had a tear foreskin. In spite of that your are quite fortunate enough in not getting HIV infection as that XXXXXXX Girl would be HIV free. Only if she had the disease, she could have transmitted the disease. Your negative HIV DNA PCR, 4TH generation twice (one after 7 months of high risk contact) and undetected viral particles with RNA PCR quantitative test clearly and conclusively ruled out the possibility of HIV.
You had recovered from Pancreatitis and liver problem. Moreover drugs and diseases might intervene the antibody production and the antibody detection tests and never the antigen detecting tests like 4th generation test (P24 antigen) and DNA PCR and RNA PCR tests. So you need not worry about HIV infection at all.
Only in some immuno-compromised state in some individuals antibody detection test might get delayed up to 6 months and not the antigen detecting test.
Moreover neuropathy problem is not an early HIV manifestation.
So it is the duty of your physician to find out the cause for your present illness with proper examination, investigations in blood and with image techniques. This could be due to some other cause other than HIV.
Wish you a speedy recovery.
Dr S.Murugan
Above answer was peer-reviewed by : Dr. Chakravarthy Mazumdar
doctor
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Follow up: Dr. Sankaranantham Murugan (1 hour later)
Dr XXXXXXX thank you for your genuine advice....can i be 100 % sure that i am hiv negative?although i know that no test is 100 percent conclusive....i completely recovered from my my pancreatitis and liver prob and was healthy as before but now after this exposure i cant even walk properly because of pain..my dna pcr was only for specific subtype c which i have seen in their report although when i contacted them they told me that it checked for other subtypes also which i doubt..and hiv 1 rna quant viral load test checked for subtypes m and o..i have done 4th generation tests for more than 8 times from week 6th upto 7 months..one was hiv vidas duo and other was abott architect and third was tridot test which checks for antibodies..the lab tests through all this 3 methods..i have heard that antigen part is only seen within 1 month and after that its not detectable?doctor my unprotected sex was like that i had one condom in my laptop bag from last 1 year..the condom was manforce chocolate flavoured extra dotted..i didnt read in instructions below that this condom has to be used only for oral sexand for your own protection dont use it for penetrative vaginal sex :(..so stupid of me..because of my stupidity i am suffering now.. doc i know that neuropathy is usually seen in advanced hiv stages but sometimes it occurs during seroconversion..around 8 percent people experiance neuropathy during seroconversion..and the most common causes of neuropathy are diabetes and hiv..i dont have diabetes and i have also got adequate vitamin b12 and all..now only thing pointing is hiv :(..according to you will i be the rare case who will show positive antibodies after 1 year or more?after 7 months i also took cd4/cd8 count test just to be sure..but that results were also abnormal..my total lymphocyte count was 3769 Where normal was between 1000 to 3000..mine was 769 cmm higher.. my absolute cd3 counts were 2778 (600-2500) means 278 cmm high..absolute cd4 counts were 1689 (500-1500) mine were 189 cmm high and my absoulute cd8 counts were. 1020 (200-1100) my cd4 % were 44 and cd4/cd8 ratio was 1.64....all this elevations means that my immune systen is robust and still fighting ?:(..and what about my highly elevated esr and crp levels after my exposure?all this elevations doesnt point towards hiv?i m gonna marry within 1 year but because of hiv real fear i dont want to risk and infect my fiance:(..one last question..i am afraid about htlv virus also because it also causes wide range of neurological disorders..but i dont know where to get tested for htlv in XXXXXXX .doctor there are many crf urfs and other strains circulating in oman..my tests till now would have detected this strains?and what if i would be infected with hiv2 which takes longer time to detect same as hiv/hcv coinfection
doctor
Answered by Dr. Sankaranantham Murugan (5 hours later)
Brief Answer:
HIV 2 infection also can be detected within 3 months. Not been delayed.

Detailed Answer:
Hi,
Welcome to HCM.

Antigen test can be detected up to 6 months if it is positive.
You are not abnormal to have a positive test after 1 year. There is no such thing. Neuropathy can occur in conditions other than Diabetes and HIV about which you can discuss with your treating physician. Your absolute lymphocyte count, CD4 COUNT and the ratio of CD4 and CD8 are more than what one needs. Your immune system, as you mentioned, is robust and in a fit condition to fight with any infection. This alone exclude the possibility of HIV in you.
ESR elevation and CRP increase can occur with hundreds of conditions other than early HIV infection.
You can get married without any doubt about HIV, after you get over from your neuropathy problem. All most all strains could be ruled out by your tests. HIV 2 also ruled out by the negative 4th generation test.
Dr S.Murugan
Above answer was peer-reviewed by : Dr. Vaishalee Punj
doctor
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Follow up: Dr. Sankaranantham Murugan (3 hours later)
Thank you so much for your helpful advices dr XXXXXXX ...i have also consulted one of the best id specialists in XXXXXXX .he told me he can write it down and say with confidence that i dont have hiv..but looking at my clinical evidences shouldnt i worry about hiv?my neurological problem is worsening day by day instead of resolving:(..i think also my motor nerves are effected because of continous twitching all over body and pain in knees and difficult while walking and climbing stairs....if i would hv been your patient then what advice u would have given.me..should i confidently forget about hiv or should i test again looking at my clinical signs and symptoms?doc i am also afraid about hiv hep c coinfection because of my bleeding....i have tested for hep c also at 7 months.,is it sufficient to rule out hep c also?and last thing doc if u are aware about htlv 1 infection which is also a retrovirus and is related mostly with neurological disorders..doctor what must be the reason of sudden discolouration of my soles of feet and palms of hand after exposure?they have gone beet red in colour from whitish....is there any way i can attach pics of my soles and palms which u can see?sorry for irritating you doctor but m really feared and lost right now and u are the hope for me and i fully trust you thats y am clearing all my doubts..thank you :)..
doctor
Answered by Dr. Sankaranantham Murugan (4 hours later)
Brief Answer:
THere is facility to upload your photos in HCM

Detailed Answer:
Hi Vickram,
Welcome back.
Once again affirm you that neurological manifestations in HIV infection can occur only after 7-10 years after the immunity goes below the critical level (CD4 count goes below 200 cells/cubic mm). Your CD4 count lies well above normal. So this could not be due to HIV. You need no further testing.
Don't imagine yourself that you are getting worse and your motor system also involved. All these thing should be confirmed by your physician or neurologist and they have to find the cause.
There are so many reasons for bleeding other than HIV- HCV Co-infection.
Discoloration of soles and palms might be due to contact allergy, impeding circulation or due to some drugs.
There is facility to upload your photos in HCM (Not as an attachment).
Wish you a speedy recovery.
Dr S.Murugan
Above answer was peer-reviewed by : Dr. Yogesh D
doctor
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Follow up: Dr. Sankaranantham Murugan (4 hours later)
Thank you socmuch for your kind advice....I have uploaded pics of my soles and palms in my profile kindly look at it and letme know what should it be according to you....doctor why are my absolute lymphocytes,cd3 and cd4 counts are abnormal?way beyond normal range? My hep c and hep b tests are also conclusive at 7 months? And doc u havent replied about htlv..i also fear about htlv infection because it is mainly associated with neurological disorders..i will be happy if you can shed some light on that also..Thank you :)
doctor
Answered by Dr. Sankaranantham Murugan (1 hour later)
Brief Answer:
Photos had not been uploaded with this question

Detailed Answer:
Hi,

Welcome back.

All tests values are mentioned only ranges. Values exceeding slightly above normal are acceptable.
HBV and HCV are conclusive after 7 months. I don't have come across HTLV 1 and 2 infection and not having any idea.

There is no photo attached with this query.

Dr S.Murugan
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Above answer was peer-reviewed by : Dr. Ashwin Bhandari
doctor
Answered by
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Dr. Sankaranantham Murugan

HIV AIDS Specialist

Practicing since :1974

Answered : 3110 Questions

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Is Negative HIV DNA PCR, 4th Generation Test At 7 Months Conclusive?

Brief Answer: You are HIV free and symptoms not related to HIV. Detailed Answer: Hi XXXXXXX Welcome to HCM. Thanks for posting your query. You had unprotected sex at Oman and had a tear foreskin. In spite of that your are quite fortunate enough in not getting HIV infection as that XXXXXXX Girl would be HIV free. Only if she had the disease, she could have transmitted the disease. Your negative HIV DNA PCR, 4TH generation twice (one after 7 months of high risk contact) and undetected viral particles with RNA PCR quantitative test clearly and conclusively ruled out the possibility of HIV. You had recovered from Pancreatitis and liver problem. Moreover drugs and diseases might intervene the antibody production and the antibody detection tests and never the antigen detecting tests like 4th generation test (P24 antigen) and DNA PCR and RNA PCR tests. So you need not worry about HIV infection at all. Only in some immuno-compromised state in some individuals antibody detection test might get delayed up to 6 months and not the antigen detecting test. Moreover neuropathy problem is not an early HIV manifestation. So it is the duty of your physician to find out the cause for your present illness with proper examination, investigations in blood and with image techniques. This could be due to some other cause other than HIV. Wish you a speedy recovery. Dr S.Murugan